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The Dulce Interview | Human Origins | HAARP/Bluebeam | Norio Hayakawa | Anthony F. Sanchez



This interview was held at a private residence in Placer County, CA. on January 6th, 2010 conducted by researcher Anthony F. Sanchez, with a retired USAF Colonel to recall the events surrounding a classified 1979 incident which took place at Dulce, NM. This includes details involving (Colonel X) who was assigned to Dulce as part of a special Medical Detachment where he learned the history and circumstances surrounding the 1940 Dulce Discovery event; a harrowing event, as claimed by the Colonel, filled with many intriguing details, which have never been revealed to the public before.

Artwork By Nicholas Garton


Because of the enigmatic nature surrounding the UFO phenomenon and how it typically negatively affects those who come forth with disclosure, my source, (Colonel X), has requested anonymity.

Therefore, I have obtained the information from (Colonel X) with assurance that his name would not be divulged under any set of circumstances, or until such time that I am given permission to do so. His military record, academic credentials and current work as a professor in Northern California have been vetted and deemed completely legitimate.

On January 8th, 2010 (Colonel X) submitted to two tests by a certified forensic polygraph examiner. I specifically chose an examiner who knew nothing of the case as to prevent him from later remembering or identifying my source who requests total anonymity.

I personally architected all the questions (outside the innocuous), ensuring that we conceal the secretive nature of the ‘story’ away from the polygraph examiner. Also, the name of the subject was never given to the examiner, nor was his name asked during the exam. Again, this allowed us to retain anonymity of (Colonel X). But all questions were accordant to the Colonel’s understanding in that they reflected his direct involvement at Dulce. He passed two independent examinations.

The forensic Polygraph Examiner can 'possibly' reveal the identity of (Colonel X); as such, he was never made aware of the significance of Dulce or the reason for the exam. His selection (the examiner) was made after meeting specific criteria, ensuring prevention of leaks from discovery of the story’s premise. Therefore I will not divulge the name of the examiner used, except for revealing that he is a retired law enforcement officer and now a private investigator, also from Northern California.

All the accounts mentioned in this interview are real. There are no fictional characters, and each of these events happened exactly as I have written them based on the personal testimony provided by (Colonel X), the only known speaking 'first-hand witness' to events at Dulce.

And more than anyone else I am still surprised as I am grateful for this interview held with the Colonel. I firmly believe that his testimony will be the catalyst to the exposure of what really is happening beneath the Mesa at Dulce NM, and how it affects all of us.

January 6th 2010, 9:00 A.M. (PST)
Colonel’s Private Residence
Sierra Nevada Region, Placer County, CA


[ANTHONY] Colonel, what are you doing today; are you still involved with the Military?

[COLONEL] No, after leaving the Air Force I went back to school and earned two post graduate degrees in Psychology. Today I teach graduate students at a college right here in Northern California. I’m still happily married and have three children. All three are grown now and doing quite well on their own, and I am very thankful they live close by.

[ANTHONY] So you live a pretty normal life, was it always this way?

[COLONEL] No it wasn’t, and I guess that’s why we are here to talk.

During the latter half of my military career while I was still a Major with the U.S. Air Force I can remember how arduously hard I worked towards a promotion to Lieutenant Colonel. That’s all I wanted ... Anyhow, at about that time everything about my career was quite normal, proceeding quite well.

I was stationed out of McClellan Air Force Base near Sacramento, CA. assigned to a Medical Detachment specializing in an area of Psychiatric and Behavioral Studies for both the USAF (and occasionally the Central Intelligence Agency), typically my work involved trips to locations on joint Air Force-CIA special projects. I know that might sound surprising, but it’s accurate.

However, any normalcy in my life ended at about that time; everything I knew would change for many years to come. It began after I received orders to report to Edwards AFB, from there I would fly on a special assignment to conduct interviews at a secret installation in Dulce, NM. That was all I knew about the assignment.

I remember thinking to myself, “Where in the world was Dulce?” For one, I had never heard of the place. Secondly, and to the best of my knowledge, I was certain that none of the people I had served with knew of Dulce, either. It had never been mentioned before and was never on any list of installations that I had reported to.

The orders informed me that I was to adhere to strict protocol under our classified guidelines, as this was a top secret assignment. This was nothing new for me, my specialty detachment typically operated at various levels of classification, so our regular operating protocol was to always treat each new job with a standard compartmentalized approach.

I had been assigned on many top secret projects before, and in fact, the year before the Dulce assignment I had been on one particular job having to do with a recovery mission from a crash site located near Fort Irwin down south. A USAF C-130E Hercules with six men aboard had nearly collided several times with an object of unknown origin travelling at a super high rate of speed estimated at 1500-2000 miles per hour.

The survivors said the unidentified object appeared to be tracking them, almost playing with them, coming closer with each pass. One man reported that a deafening high-pitch sound penetrated the plane's walls, drowning out the aircrafts own engine noise, causing them painful headaches. By the final pass from the object, the C-130E immediately began to stall, ultimately crashing. Two men died.

This is what I did; what my detachment was for ... Our team reported to these types of incidents, and they happened more often than you would think.

My role was to assist with physical and psychiatric evaluations of any surviving personnel. Mainly what we would do was conduct an initial, that's medical lingo for a first interview with the patient, and then we'd investigate and document the investigation, all aspects. In some cases we'd facilitate triage if necessary and then conduct exit interviews before submitting our final report.

In any event, we never were sure as to what the entire nature of the Irwin incident was; however, one man we evaluated had been subjected to something so severe during the incident that eventually he had to be discharged, medically for mental instability.

And whatever it was they saw out there, was definitely traumatic enough to make them succumb to an arbitrary psychological condition causing both paranoia and terror. It was pretty severe.

I know you want to talk about Dulce, but it’s important that I mention this event, in addition to other areas of my work, because it's what prepared me for Dulce, and with a great level of relevance. You can be certain of it.

[ANTHONY] Do you mean, relevant to your work?

[COLONEL] Exactly ... This assignment was something that caught me completely off guard. Something I don’t think I was prepared for ... even if the Air Force felt that I was.

I don’t know who recommended me, but I noticed that the two most qualified people in my area of expertise were pooled together for this assignment, me being one of them. Usually when on assignment we operated in a team of four to six people per detachment, but this time it was to be just three of us. Later a fourth would be added, but not in our field of expertise.

What I immediately can recall was that upon first reaching the entrance to the Dulce Installation was that it appeared to be eerily similar in design to that of Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station (NORAD) where I had been stationed twice before, except the entrance was half the size.

If you were flying above this place at any distance greater than a few hundred feet, you would never know it was there. Only by landing directly near the front gate on a obscure landing pad could you see the entrance. It was very clever how they used the montain desert land-cover to conceal the entrance [forrest cover]. Only by coordinates could you find it.

[ANTHONY] Colonel, I hate to do this but before going into detail about Dulce can you briefly describe your work at Cheyenne Mountain?

[COLONEL] Well before joining and starting OTS at Lackland, I had already earned my Bachelor of Science in Psychology. Back then I had often pondered about one day earning an M.D. in Psychiatry, but once I was fully entrenched, I was too busy; and the travel involved quelled any ideas for additional higher education. Plus, Basic Officer Training had been tough enough.

So, at that time an M.D. was simply out of the question until after my military career was over, possibly. But wouldn’t you know it, I chose to forgo an M.D. in Psychiatry and decided that teaching Psychology would be a much more relaxing and rewarding career path for me after the military. And it is.

Anyhow, during my time with the Air Force I was selected for assignment with a classified medical detachment, as you know already. How we operated was simple, we specialized in performing a battery of psychological and behavioral evaluations of military personnel (from any branch) in two manners of protocol. One scenario would be to conduct psychological assessments of personnel after ‘Type-X events’, and in the other scenario, we would be called to evaluate potential candidates prior to consideration for any ‘special assignment’ that involved a unique set of circumstances, through both psychological and behavioral assessment.

A Type-X event or incident involves a death or accident caused by unknown phenomena. These events are classified, usually falling under some umbrella of secrecy; the very reason why my unit was created.

[ANTHONY] Was it normal for your detachment to work at places like Cheyenne?

[COLONEL] Oh yes, at Cheyenne there was regular evaluation required for any potential long-term personnel slated for work at the installation. This was to help identify and combat the affects of working in various levels of prolonged confinement, especially within a deeply embedded or subterranean environment.

As you probably know, central operations at Cheyenne are housed at approximately 600 meters within the mountain and there are various levels of ranging depths to other key operating areas below the mountain’s base.

It was quite common to encounter new people who had reservations over working these assignments, but to the military if these people were selected at the ‘top’ of their grade and ‘qualified’ with a specific specialization meeting certain requirements well then, they had to be evaluated, and in rare cases (convinced) to perform their job.

This could be done either through psychiatric sessions, or by medicating, or both.

[ANTHONY] Very interesting, are you saying that many people at NORAD are medicated?

[COLONEL] Oh no ... not at all. With about 1500 personnel operating the base at any one time, you maybe had 3-5 people with simple diagnoses such as low-level claustrophobic anxiety, the most common in these environments. But if we ever suspected that someone possessed a high-level or an acute claustrophobic or taphephobic anxiety there was no way in ‘hell’ they would be permitted to operate there.

[ANTHONY] Taphephobic?

‘[COLONEL] Taphephobic’ is the fear of being buried alive. Anyhow, these situations would require too much physician interaction and the potential for bad effects from medicating, which would not be conducive to facilitating a successful work environment, for anyone.

No, anyone found to be suffering from any acute psychological condition as a result of the environment, was simply re-assigned. The work was the same every where I went on these assignments except for at the Dulce installation.

[ANTHONY] How was Dulce different?

[COLONEL] At first it was because of circumstance. My assignment was always the same: you conduct an investigation, perform psychological analyses of all the personnel involved, and then submit a final report to the commanding officer, but I had never had been asked to conduct a full investigation, in charge. Such an important task was usually reserved for assignment to a Lieutenant Colonel, someone generally at a director of operations level. At the time I was just a Major.

[End of excerpt...]



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